並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-184-%E9%83%BD%E5%B8%82%E5%82%B3%E8%AA%AA%E7%89%B9%E8%BC%AF%E4%B8%89-%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%B8%8D%E5%AD%98%E5%9C%A8%E7%9A%84%E8%BB%8A%E7%AB%99-%E5%A6%82%E6%9C%88%E8%BB%8A%E7%AB%99-%E5%A3%AB%E6%9E%97%E4%BB%B0%E5%BE%B7%E5%A4%A7%E9%81%93%E4%B8%8A%E7%9A%84-%E5%B9%BD%E9%9D%88%E5%85%AC%E8%BB%8A/id1526048089?i=1000559683845